In May, 1997, Senator John McCain asked the Air Force to investigate the Phoenix Lights' events

By Senator John McCain 10-09-1997

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On Tuesday, August 5, 1997, Capt. Drew Sullins, of the Maryland Air National Guard was interviewed by Kenny Young of T.A.S.K. regarding the March 13th Arizona UFO reports.

By Kenny Young 8-5-1997

YOUNG: Thanks for taking time from your busy schedule to talk this afternoon about Project Snowbird and the flare droppings over Arizona that generated some attention. One of the things I want to discuss is the TIME DELAY in announcing the explanation for this event, which was a duration of almost 4 to 5 months. Is there any reason to your knowledge for this delay?

SULLINS: Yes there is, and I don't think people are going to believe it, but it's the truth... it's a simple miscommunication. Apparently when the military in Phoenix was first approached, they looked at their flight logs, which are kept in two separate categories called "RESIDENT" and "VISITING" logs. These logs chart all of the incoming or outgoing air traffic. When the first inquiries of this went out, DAVIS-MONTHAN didn't check the visiting flight logs. The Public Affairs Officer down there called the people at operations who kept the flight logs, and they said, "we didn't have anything up that day." After several months, Captain Eileen Bienz was told by someone, and I can't remember who, that there was a project called Snowbird, which was an Air National Guard 'Op.' Bienz didn't have information on Snowbird, because Arizona units don't participate in it. Snowbird is an operation run during the winter when they take A.N.G. units located in the northern U.S. When it snows and the weather gets bad, they fly their units out there for a couple of weeks and train during the winter because the weather for flying is so good. Bienz put two and two together and checked the visiting flight logs, and sure enough it was discovered that there was an Air National Guard unit flying around.

YOUNG: So the miscommunication was due to Davis-Monthan?

SULLINS: Yeah, it wasn't on my part. Captain Bienz called me up and told me the whole story, just a couple of weeks ago and first I ever heard of it, and said, 'now can you confirm these things?' So I called our Ops guys of the 175th Wing & 104th Fighter Squadron, and they were able to confirm for me that they were flying that night in that area and dropping flares. The information was not held, as soon as we got it together it was released.

YOUNG: Why had the pilots in this unit, knowing they did this, not come forth in the hours after the publicity to announce the proper explanation?

SULLINS: First of all, the deployment for the unit was on the last day of a 15-day training mission happening during the first 2-weeks of March. It was one of the last missions they flew out there, and by the time it hit the news, they might have been gone. The story wasn't the big news event in Baltimore that it was in Phoenix. I think they seemed genuinely suprised that they were the cause of all the hub-bub.

YOUNG: When you say they were 'gone,' what do you mean by that?

SULLINS: They came back to Maryland. It was a 2-week training mission. They were there the first 2-weeks in March, and so by March 13th, that night, they landed and probably got up on March 14th or 15th and rolled out of there.

YOUNG: There was plenty of national media exposure regarding this, and also a second-wave of publicity in mid-June following the USA TODAY article. Is there any reason these pilots or affiliates with the squadron would not have come forth with this explanation in spite of all this?

SULLINS: Well I honestly don't think that they knew. I really don't. The lead pilot that night, a Lieutenant Colonel by the name of Ron Henry, was retiring about that time... he's retired now and commuting back and forth to Minneapolis and he's really busy. He's in the flight training program for Northwest Airlines learning how to fly a DC-9, and all these guys are really busy. They're citizen airmen and citizen soldiers, so they have full-time jobs and careers, families and other things they have to manage. Look, I'll be honest with you, until Captain Bienz called me up, I honestly had not even heard about this. I read two papers in the morning, one of them on the internet, one in my office, and so if I could miss it, then I guess they could too.

YOUNG: Was the lead pilot and others involved aware that dropping these flares would produce the results among the population below that it did?

SULLINS: No, I don't think they would have known because it's a standard routine training mission out there. Flares are dropped alot on that range. On that particular night, the visibility and atmospheric conditions were such that the things could have been viewed from the southwestern suburbs of Phoenix. These flares can be seen from hundreds of miles if the weather conditions are right. Apparently, they're not the only unit out there that dropped flares. Who's to say, perhaps the weather conditions and every thing just kind of came together and these things could be seen from Phoenix.

YOUNG: You speculate that other units could have also been involved?

SULLINS: The only units we had flying that night were the eight aircraft from the 104th Fighter Squadron.

YOUNG: What about the arguments that the flares were visible longer than 1-hour, when the actual burn-time for parachute flares would be around 4 or 5 minutes?

SULLINS: They were dropping alot of flares. They were over that range for over an hour. One aircraft would go in, drop a couple of flares, make its run and attack a target, then another aircraft would come in from behind and illuminate the range again, so they were continually dropping flares in that area.

YOUNG: So the pilots could see the flares from their plane?

SULLINS: Oh yes.

YOUNG: Would they have been able to visualize that this could be something the population below would notice as well?

SULLINS: I can't speak for the pilots because I wasn't flying, but the dropping of flares out there is so routine that I don't see why they would've had any cause for alarm.

YOUNG: Again, the delay in this announcement is somewhat odd. How many men would have been involved with the 104th Fighter Squadron that would have had knowledge of this operation?

SULLINS: There were eight aircraft. Eight pilots.

YOUNG: Were there also officers loading the flares in pods under the wings who would have had knowledge of this?

SULLINS: I'd have to call the squadron on that, but once Davis- Monthan checked the visiting flight logs, they were able to explain it. The base knew about it, but they just didn't check the visiting flight logs.

YOUNG: How would this activity have been specified or listed on a flight log?

SULLINS: That's a good question. I don't have an answer to that one.

YOUNG: Do they list flare exercises in flight logs?

SULLINS: Anytime you're flying at night in the A-10 Thunderbolt on a night training exercise, it's probable that you'll always be dropping flares. It's very routine, there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY about what they did out there.

YOUNG: It was obviously extraordinary in light of the public reaction to the operation.

SULLINS: Well that was, but not the mission itself.

YOUNG: Do they announce flare exercises in advance so as not to cause public alarm?

SULLINS: No.

YOUNG: They do not?

SULLINS: No, they never have before. It's never produced this public response before and our pilots have flown this same mission out of that range a number of times before, and done so without so much as raising an eyebrow.

YOUNG: Would all the reports of a triangular object, mentioned in the USA Today article, be attributable to the flare droppings?

SULLINS: I don't know. I've only seen videotapes twice, and they looked like flares to me.

YOUNG: I recalled that some of the early reports on this that some Air Tower Operators were looking at these flares and at the same time detected no radar track of any aircraft on radar. Could you please tell me if eight A-10's which were dropping flares would have any Stealth capabilities which would have caused them not to be detected by radar?

SULLINS: Nope, and the pilots told me that they had everything operating that night and that they should've shown up on radar. Sky Harbor International Airport held radar surveillance for this area, and I don't want to speak for them, and don't know what their coverage area is, but I understand that the area is restricted military airspace. Sky Harbor International Airport will have to answer for those questions. The A-10's do not have any Stealth technology on it, and they were flying with all of their navigation radar systems and everything operating.

YOUNG: Since we had some alarm and concern generated from the public over the March 13 flare droppings, would it be possible to duplicate an identical event for the public, and arrange for the media to be present to document the event?

SULLINS: As the pilots explained it to me, it may have been the atmospheric conditions that night which allowed this thing to be seen so far away in Phoenix, but I'm not so sure we could replicate or duplicate the exact conditions that night. But secondly, it costs a hell of a lot of money to fly these planes for an hour, and I don't know that the United States Air Force would authorize that expenditure. I'd be willing to bet that since this has happened, a whole bunch of flares have dropped over that range since then.

YOUNG: So a repeat performance to satisfy the populace would not be
possible?

SULLINS: I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying that I'm the wrong guy to ask. You're not going to get the Maryland Air National Guard t o fly all the way across the country to replicate the event. That's a request that'll have to be made to the United States Air Force in the Pentagon, and that would then be handed down to the National Guard Bureau, and it goes from echelon to echelon, through the bureaucratic process. Davis- Monthan could assist there, if one were to inquire when the next training mission would be scheduled over Luke AFB where A-10s will be dropping flares from between 10 and 15 thousand feet. That is essentially all you have to replicate. The thing that people are getting all bent out of shape about is the fact that I never offered this as the 'definitive explanation' for what happened. We only offered this up because an inquiry was made to the military regarding unidentified lights. We released all the information on our operation, but we are not prepared to say definitively that these are, in fact, the lights. I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but I can only say that our unit was there, we flew these missions, we dropped these flares. Alot of people think it's flares. Some of the pilots who've looked at the videos flat out said it was flares. According to what every military expert and A-10 pilot told me leads me to believe it was flares.

YOUNG: Since another demonstration would be difficult, would it be possible to notify the public in the event of future exersizes of this nature?

SULLINS: Look, I gotta be completely candid here, we're not going to pick up the phone every darn time we do something. Military operations are just that - military operations. They're not things that the public is used to seeing on an everyday basis, and if everytime we conducted something that we thought the general public would find unusual, I'd spend my whole life on the phone telling people about our training. And in Maryland, we don't drop flares. And the reason we dropped so many flares in Tucson is because its one of the few places we can go to execute that mission. There is no place in Maryland that we could drop these flares safely. The Warfield A.N.G. base outside of Baltimore is not properly equipped to load, handle and store these type of flares and other ordinances. When we go to Arizona, we fly lots of these missions, and try to maximize our time out there because we can't do it at home. So we don't have any need to call people here at home and tell
them our plans.

YOUNG: If it were ever deemed needful to announce anything, who would be contacted?

SULLINS: I would put out the release. If my boss came to me and said that we were going to be conducting an exersize that would alarm the general public, then I would put out a news release to the TV, radio and newspapers.

YOUNG: Do you also handle NOTAM (Notice To Airmen) reports or advisories to other airports or pilots in the area of exersizes?

SULLINS: I don't know what a NOTAM report is, I've never heard of one here.

YOUNG: I do appreciate your time and detailed information today.

SULLINS: My pleasure.


It was obvious that Capt. Sullins was knowledgeable about the flight operations of the Maryland A.N.G. and familiar with the flare maneuvers.

He had clearly handled several of these questions previously, and had also indicated that he interviewed several of the pilots involved. He may have been briefed on how to handle these inquiries, as much of what he said was strikingly similar to comments made to me by a captain from the 178th Fighter Group and 162nd Fighter Squadron Flying Unit Fighter Operations division from Springfield Air National Guard base after a separate but identical incident happened in Southern Ohio on March 26. I found Sullins to be courteous and very professional.

However, I am uncomfortable by the fact that the pilots of the eight aircraft responsible, or the other airman involved in the unit operations of the 175th Wing & 104th Fighter Squadron, would supposedly have 'not heard' of the March 13th debacle involving UFOs over Arizona. I cannot fathom that these persons would not "do the right thing" and put the matter to rest as abruptly as possible.

Recall that Snowbird remained in Arizona at least the following afternoon, or possibly several days after the March 13th event, giving them plenty of opportunities to hear of the UFO reports which had saturated the Arizona media.

Furthermore, Sullins seemed befuddled by the lack of radar returns for the A-10 activity from Sky Harbor International Airport. He also didn't elect to address the reports of a triangular object supposedly observed, and dismissed the public reaction of a 'routine' exersize to weather conditions, an identical scenario first advanced to T.A.S.K. from the Springfiled A.N.G. units after the Ohio disturbance on March 26.

In an honest assessment of this drama, I must observe that the Arizona scenario is highly suspicious and all-too-similar to the March 26th Ohio happening. And due to the delayed confession from the Maryland Air National Guard, one must seriously consider if an ulterior motive may be at work in this travesty.

The Ohio event dealt also with a large, triangular object traveling overhead, and also a 'bouncing' object that was witnessed by a fire and E.M.S. coordinator from New Vienna, Ohio. The Arizona flare explanation, like the Ohio story, is complicated by nagging inconsistencies that come against the flare explanation.

I am satisfied that flares were there, but if the other reports are to honestly considered, then we only have a partial resolution to this very interesting mystery.
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I’m from Seattle. I remember the reverberations in my lungs from the formations of WW II bombers flying over the city as a boy. I watched the B-47 & the B-52 fly out of Boeing Field when they were brand new. I learned the parts of airplanes by building models. I learned aerodynamics from gliders. I read about airplanes, and loved to watch the Beavers lift off of Lake Union trailing spray, with the sound of their Pratt & Whitney R-985 echoing off of Queen Ann Hill. I still do. I began flying in late 1962, as soon as I could reach the rudder pedals and hitchhike to the closest airport which by then was Portland International. I earned my licenses & ratings at the minimum age. I washed/waxed airplanes, cleaned toilets, scrubbed hangar floors, flew skydivers, charters, dead bodies, radioactive pharmaceuticals anything to log more time to get the airline career that was my destiny. Flying is not what I do, its who I am.

By Captain Trig Johnston The UFO Chronicles © 2006-2016

My Airline Transport License bears type ratings in Convair 580, DC-9 and B-727. I have flown the DC-10 and B-747 as First Officer. I have logged over 12,000 hours of flying time. I know what flares don’t look like.

Airline pilots are accustomed to noting the time. Time off the block’s, time off the ground, the time over navigational fixes particularly over the ocean. Then there is the all important estimated time of arrival, the time on the ground and the time on the blocks where we turn off the seat belt sign. And the time the crew bus leaves in relation to those times. Son Logan was making a racket outside in our drive way. When I stepped outside to investigate, the time in Scottsdale Arizona on March 13th, 1997 was 22:20.

Logan’s friends, Ryan and Jenny, were helping with the project that consisted of constructing massive, rustic gates for our acre horse property. He was using a sledge hammer to force timbers onto steel rods. Ryan asked, “What the hell is that?” Ryan had to be the only person on earth who hadn’t known of the Hale Bop comet.

I turned, prepared to deliver a lecture on comet’s, but stopped short. “Uh, we’re in for an air show.” I said. My initial impression was that of a formation of C-130’s displaying some new type of tactical lighting. But you feel a C-130’s powerful Alison engines before you hear it or see it. We felt nothing. It was quiet. Real quiet, and it stayed that way.

The huge mass – at least a mile wide – approached from the North West. I could land on it with my 727. We began to eliminate possibilities. What ever it was seemed to be following the Tonto One arrival, the standard jet arrival routing for instrument traffic into PHX on an approximate heading of 120°. I estimated its altitude to be 10,000 feet.

No C-130’s, it wasn’t a formation of jets – too slow for either of them. Helicopters? Not that either – no “wop-wop,” no sound. None. Cessna’s wired with weird lights? Its happened, but that wasn’t the case on March 13th.

After a few minutes of observation we concluded that this was one object. There was zero movement between its massive forward-facing amber lights. I should have counted the lights, should have run for a camera and called my friend Bob Mohan, a local talk radio guy. The craft had intercepted Scottsdale Road, and made a right turn to approximately 180º following it south. It was headed right for Mo’s house.

WHY didn’t I call Mohan, run for a camera or any of those other questions people always ask? Because I expected it to disappear at any moment. None of us were frightened, excited or otherwise disturbed. But we couldn’t take our eyes off of it. What I saw bears little relation to the video of the “Phoenix Lights.” And yes, there are a couple of fruit loops associated with March 13th. Anyone who can tell you what the little green men wish for us can probably also tell you where God wants you to send your checks. But, that’s just my opinion.

I estimate it passed 90º to our position, roughly at the intersection of Scottsdale road and Shea Boulevard, a couple of miles away, at 22:30. We could no longer see the top of it – the lights we had been watching were blocked out by the structure. As it passed the 90º position, I thought I perceived a rounded, almost gondola shaped – what? – what DO you call a semi-transparent thing on the bottom of a craft whose top might have been 10,000 feet in height? What ever you call it, it was nearly dragging the ground. Keep in mind there was nothing available to compare with – and from our position it was quite dark. I’ve heard it said that it was like looking through water. Yeah. Like a thin curtain of water. Lights on the other side, some city, mostly stars lost some of their brilliance and appeared mildly wavy as the craft passed between us and them. To me, the machine seemed to be an array of amber lights suspended in floating ink surrounded by the dark of night.

When you make a UFO report, you must expect people to think you’re crazy. So here’s where you will think I’m crazy. It had passed approximately two miles west of our location at Pima & Shea when I “received” what I have subsequently been told is an “empathic” transmission:

“We are not a threat.”

“OK.”

We watched the craft float silently, majestically down Scottsdale road at about 30 MPH like a float in the Rose Bowl parade. This craft wanted to be seen.

“So why didn’t more people see it?”

Good question. My guess is that due to its silence, and the lack of a beam from the lights – no beam, no corona, you’ve heard all of that – that unless you happened to be looking up anyway, you’d never have known it was there.

When the craft reached Indian School Road, it made a turn to proceed directly over Sky Harbor Airport, making good a course that would take it to the Antenna Farm on South Mountain. That’s where the TV towers and all of those blinking red lights are. . . we lost sight of it there. The kitchen clock read 22:40 hours. 20 minutes of UFO time.

Note: the Goldwater range is on the far side of south mountain. Flares can be seen there from various locations throughout the Valley of the Sun.

I made no effort to report the sighting until I read Phoenix City Council member Francis Barwood’s plea in the Arizona Republic. She wanted to know what this was. The cost was her career in politics. You see they don’t want you to know what we saw on March 13th. They went to a great deal of trouble with disinformation, character assignation and just plain old lies to try to. . . keep us from thinking?

The government would have you believe that military pyrotechnic flares were ejected over a major metropolitan area by a visiting Canadian military unit. That’s a violation of one of the most basic Federal Air Regulations. Yet not one word about that or which tree they would hang those pilots from had that happened. It is an absurd suggestion. And there was no physical evidence. No fires, no spent munitions, no parachutes, no nothing but hot, Federal air.

Does anyone believe that a flare might maintain speed and altitude while tracking a precision course, making turns and covering vast distances? I don’t think anyone is that stupid, yet they continue to stick to their story and insist you believe it. And they have allies within the “UFO Community.” Why?

Remember at about that time they put out a story that Capt. Craig Button broke formation in an armed A-10 at the Goldwater firing range. They allowed this airplane to fly over a major metropolitan area and many smaller towns, buzz a few people and not one single airplane was dispatched to see what was going on?

They tell you that Capt. Button intentionally flew his A-10 into the side of Eagle Mountain in Colorado. They tell you that They identified his remains with DNA samples the day following the discovery of the crash site. How long did it take to get a DNA identification in those days? Seems to me that it was about two weeks. Is there a connection between March 13th and this as well as several other incidents? They seem to have the same press agent.

Bottom line, what was it? I don’t know. If it landed on the White House lawn this morning and E.T. stepped out, I would not be surprised. Jim Delotoso speaks eloquently about Occum’s Razor – the simplest answer to a question is usually the right one. He’s right.

The SR-71 flew in 1958 before They had any real money to play with… When did the Stealth Bomber fly? Remember, They shot JFK in front of God and everyone and got away with it. Fried some folks at Waco, but deny it to this day. Do you believe that TWA 800 was brought down by a faulty boost pump? Do you really believe the “9-11” story?

Is it possible that They, the flight crew of the March 13th UFO are in the service of them? Your tax dollars at work? That would be my guess. But then I have to ask myself why They would parade their new toy down Scottsdale Road, and then deny it?

Look up. "They" will be back.
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My name is Xxxxx Xxx I live in Kingman AZ . Me and my mother witnessed the flying V over our home east of Kingman AZ March 13 1997 around 7.15 Pm. We were heading into town to find my brother we had just exited our home as we were getting into my truck I noticed a orange light in the sky coming at us from the west . As I watched the strange light it turned blood red coming at us as I was pulling out of our driveway it was coming over us and we could see 5 blue white lights in a V on the bottom of the craft. It was so weird I stopped and got out of the truck to see it better and as it come over us it was completely silent no sound at all.

Reader Submitted Report (Unedited) 3-13-15

When it was directly over head I couldn't see the lights anymore unless I looked to the side of the craft if I looked directly at the lights it was like they were hidden. The craft flew over us and headed east toward Flagstaff, Az.

I immediately called my good friend Xxx Xxxxxxxx to ask if he saw it flying over Kingman earlier and he had not. He actually didn’t believe I saw anything until the reports were in the news the next day and it was reported as being seen over Paulden AZ witch was due east of our location when we observed it. We never came forward as it seamed we wouldn’t have been taken serious especially after seeing our Governor Fife Symington make fun of people that had reported it.

My Father was soon after diagnosed with AML and passed away in 2003 . And since myself and my Mother were both diagnosed with Multi Myeloma cancer , According to the DR,s its not hereditary its from exposure to chemical or radiological exposure it really makes me wonder what was in the sky those nights.
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It’s hard to believe it’s been almost 10 years. I still remember it. How can one forget. My witness account began one night as I was leaving my job at a TV station in Yuma, AZ (different than the current station I work at). It was shift work…M-F 3p-11pm. That means I was out the door between 11p and 11:15pm. As I was leaving, the newsroom was empty except for the weatherman. I said goodbye and opened door to go into the back parking lot. I noticed a row of evenly spaced bright white lights just South East of the station. I remember thinking “Wow, did they add streets lights to 16th Street (Hwy 95)?” On the way to my car I tried to remember if they had always been there.

By Adriana Sanchez The UFO Chronicles 2-20-07

I decided to check them out since it was only a couple of blocks away. As I drove out of the parking lot I knew they weren’t streetlights. They were now a little higher than before but still close to the ground. I drove in their direction and could now see they were in the sky. Seven evenly spaced white lights in a “V” formation moving very slowly . . . really graceful. I tried to figure out what they were. Crop duster? Harriers? I turned south and tried to follow it so I could make out what it was. I rolled down my window to listen but it made no sound. I ruled out crop duster since the lights indicated it was at least as big as an entire field. I ruled out seven evenly spaced Harriers since there was absolutely no sound. I stared at the lights and even tough I was alone in my car, said out loud “What is that?” I couldn’t tell if it was seven separate objects or one object with 7 lights. If it was several objects they moved in perfect formation…evenly spaced and moved at the same time.

I had driven less than a mile and decided to make a U-turn and raced back to the TV station so I could catch the weatherman before he left. He had a pilot’s license and would certainly know what this is. As I drove back I kept glancing over my right shoulder to keep an eye on it. I didn’t want to lose sight of it. As I turned into the parking lot of the TV station, it was gone. “No no no no nooooo” I remember thinking.

I turned back tried to find it again. I drove for a few miles but it was gone. I don’t feel that the lights sped off. I think they just disappeared. From the time I opened the door to the time I lost sight of the lights, the whole thing lasted about 5 minutes. I was disappointed that I didn’t find out what it was but I let it go.

About a year later I was watching a show about UFO sightings. I saw the “Phoenix Lights” story and said “Oh my God! That’s what I saw!” Even though I had never given the lights another thought, I was thrilled to see that other people were questioning what they were because I still am curious to find out what they were.

I’ve read that some have downplayed these as being flares. But flares fall downward. What I saw was almost hovering, moving away and slightly upward. I’ve read that some reports say the lights were amber in color. The ones I saw were bright white yet they were not illuminating anything on the ground. I am excited to find out what it was that I saw but after ten years I doubt we will ever know. Even if I was proven to me that it was a government aircraft, I would be satisfied. I’m just not satisfied with stories of them being flares. I know they weren’t. I can’t tell you for sure what it was I saw, but I can tell you for sure what I didn’t see….and I didn’t see flares.
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I have always preferred “The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997,” over the term, “The Phoenix Lights” as the former is by far the most descriptive title regarding the true events state-wide, not just lights at or near the city. The term, “Phoenix Lights” is simply not accurate. The name came into being as 2 of the 5, “10 pm videos” (Rairdon & Kitei) of "mysterious lights" that slowly appeared and then disappeared, were aired on local news stations beginning the following day (Friday March 14th) and were erroneously depicted as being over Phoenix proper. These night-time video’s were shot by residents living in mountain-side homes; the respective cameras were pointed in a southwest direction with the Phoenix metro area in the

By Mike Fortson The UFO Chronicles © 2-13-12

foreground and the Estrella Mountain Range as the backdrop. The lights recorded were later proven to be flares dropped at (unusually) high altitude some 45-60 miles away by the Maryland Air National Guard. Thus, the name “Phoenix Lights” was born and by the same token confusion (which still exists today) between the flare drop footage and the “real, remarkable UFO events” which occurred on that date.

Speaking as a witness, it’s safe to say that those of you who were privileged to have observed the massive UFO—did tell someone! If not, how did you do it?! How did you vent the emotion? How could you keep it to yourself?! Having gone through the experience (myself) . . . seeing something that does not compute; that goes against the grain of how one was raised, and or what falls outside of that which society dictates is normal—the natural desire is to share the experience with folks, or seek out others who experienced the same phenomenon.

After 15 years we now know, given the area the UFO(s) traversed; the weather conditions, as well as the fact that people were sky-watching for the Hale Bopp comet that evening—only a fraction of the actual witnesses went public. So what did you do? Did you write about your sighting in a log, or sketch what you saw on paper and keep it private? Do you still see it in your memories? Do you still think about it and what it possibly was or where it was from? Did you take a snapshot or record a video? If you did, would you share it now? Would you be willing to tell your story now? It’s been 15 years . . . isn’t it time to talk? [...]
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As news of the Phoenix Lights’ events began to break nationally, eyewitness, Mike Fortson, MUFON investigator, Richard Motzer and council woman, Frances Barwood appeared on Good Morning America.

By Good Morning America June 1997

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In the May issue of the MUFON UFO Journal, there appeared a very misleading article by Bill Hamilton on the Phoenix Lights of March 13, 1997. That article represented a biased judgment of events and incorrect facts. Now, with these facts in mind, I am presenting the true information of the still ongoing investigation. At about 8:30 p.m. Thursday, the 13th of March, Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, WA, started receiving calls, first from the northwest part of Arizona, of a formation of lights moving south toward Prescott, AZ. These lights formed a basic triangle with as many as six or seven lights per side with two red lights trailing.

By Richard Motzer Field Investigator for Arizona MUFON © July, 1997 / 2016

The real time line for this event is somewhere around 8:00 p.m. MST. As the calls kept flowing in, the description changed as to how many lights were involved. Some even said there were no lights at all, but they could see a black mass blocking out the stars as it passed between the viewer and the sky. The general description was of a "V," but it also resembled a crown with lights that formed an upward triangle. These lights were not like aircraft landing lights but more like stars. This description would change as the objects moved into the Phoenix area. The only consistent properties of the object(s) would be that there were no sound and very slow movement. However, if there was only one object, it could not have covered that distance in such a short time. This is a real "Catch-22," but may be the key to the solution. I know of three V formations that night and there may be more.

As the readers may know, all of this was broadcast worldwide at 11:00 PST on Art Bell's Coast-to-Coast talk radio program. I knew it would be a very busy day for me the next morning, so I retired. I was involved with the videos of this event even before it happened. I received a call from Tom Taylor, our state director for MUFON, that a person in Paradise Valley had been taping lights west of the TV towers on South Mountain for over two years, suggesting that I make contact with her to view the footage. I did so and set the next Wednesday, the 12th at 9:00 a.m., for her to come to my home to view the tapes. Due to the death of Mr. Taylor's mother, I changed the meeting date to the 14th, Friday, the day after the events of the 13th. While talking to her on the phone, I discussed the idea that she might be seeing flares from the Gila Bend Gunnery Range. She felt this was not the case, so we met Friday around 10:15 a.m. Even before her arrival, the news media were at my house getting my reaction to the events of the night before. I had only seen one video, the formation shot by Chuck Rairden from Apache Junction. I told them that in a few minutes I would have a second video for all of us to see, because this lady had caught the event, too. The news programs broke the story with their 4:30 p.m. edition. From that time on, the phones never stopped ringing and the news people kept coming.

I started to collect all the videos I could find and interviewed other witnesses. The first videos I obtained were of lights that appeared to be over the city of Phoenix and it was those videos that made the news programs. It would be some days later before I could obtain the only video of five lights flying to the south taken at 56th Street and Carefree Highway. I have been involved in the collection of data, returning calls, and doing the interviews, which now number over seventy witnesses, of which I found 53 to be credible. The real investigating doesn't start until the last reports come in. One of the best investigation tools was a two-hour talk show I did with Bill Strauss on KTAR radio. Mr. Strauss is a very fair talk show host and allows the callers to tell their stories.

It was during that show that I realized that the people who saw the V formations flying overhead out-numbered the people who saw the lights near the Estrella Mountains by a very high ratio. The V formation lights looked like stars with the brightness of Sirius, whereas the lights over the Estrella Mountains appeared as super bright landing lights. This was very puzzling, because I had the video of the flying V formation where the lights are barely noticeable. So, why did 98% of the sightings pertain to the V formation? Four things are responsible for this:

1. People were outside looking to the northwest to see the Hale-Bopp Comet.

2. The best time to view Hale-Bopp was between 8:00 and 8:30 p.m. MST.

3. It was in motion flying toward them.

4. The altitude didn't matter as long as you were outside. You had to be at a higher elevation and have a clear view to the southwest to see the lights above and behind the Estrellas.

We will come back to the V formation again. Now we needed to find out why we had seven videos of the Estrella lights, but only a few witnesses.

At this point, all of the TV stations were running the same video clips. People were being confused and thought the videos showed the V formation, which they didn't, but instead showed the lights to be over the city of Phoenix and that is what I mistakenly thought, too.

I don't know how many times I looked at those tapes and couldn't find the common thread. I received a call from a family far to the west of Phoenix where they, too, had taped the lights the night of the 13th and many other times. I made the long drive out to 222nd Avenue and Jackrabbit Blvd to view the tape. The tape did not impress me but the people did. They said that the lights appear between 8:00 and 10:00 pm were always in the same place and would drift laterally. They also said that a lot of helicopter and fighter aircraft traffic was observed at times when these lights appeared. The highest activity was in the mid-part of the month and the most common days were Monday through Thursday. The other key item was that a large area of Bureau of Land Management land had been cordoned off in the direction of the lights. The woman's future son-in-law could see the land below the lights being illuminated like daylight. This was one of the keys, but I couldn't see how it would fit into the puzzle at that time.

The next key was the person who taped both the Estrella lights and the V formation. He had some airline pilots, "off the record," mark on the map the location and estimated elevation of the Estrella lights. Since I could not talk to them directly, I simply noted this on my map.

The final key to the solution was also the biggest mystery. Why did all videos of 3-13-97 at 10:00 p.m. have a different number of lights, different order of starting and decay, and shapes?

It was really dependent upon the observation point of the witness in the Phoenix area and, most important, how high their viewing point was. It turned out that the lights were not over Phoenix, but near the Estrella Mountains to the southwest. This determination was made after viewing all the video tapes and going to all but one of the sites and shooting 35mm film in daylight. Using the point marked by the pilot, I drew a line from each of the sites where the Estrella lights were taped. On the Rairden tape there are nine lights, but only eight lights on the Moon Valley footage. I re-ran the Moon Valley footage and just in the early part you see a light form briefly which then goes out, but did it really? No, something must have blocked it out, but it was still there in the Rairden footage. As the lights drifted downward, some lights were blocked out by the many small peaks making up the Estrella range.

In the videos that I acquired, there were two people who had been recording these Estrella lights for months. What I wanted to find was footage where a tripod was used and the zoom lens was left in one spot. To my surprise there were several clips that met these specifications. What I did next was to mark at the end of each segment the ground position on a monitor and the ending position of each light. When I ran the editor video deck in reverse, I could see each light rise in altitude and drift to the right or to the left. In all the video clips the results were the same. Just before each light went out, there was an increase in the descent of each light.

So what did this prove? Going back to the first newscasts, they ended by saying the Army National Guard said that just before 10:00 p.m. on March 13, 1997, they shot off target flares for training. We had dismissed this at first because the witnesses felt certain these lights were in front of South Mountain and over the city. This caused the early confusion of the V formation with these lights. The flares are very bright even at a distance of 50 miles and will overload a camcorder chip. They also have a parachute attached to them. As the flare is positioned and ignites, the heat from the flare heats the air above, which is trapped in its parachute, causing it to slow down its descent. Toward its final phase, before extinguishing, the heat output decreases and the flare will start to fall faster. It will also have a lateral motion due to its delivery system, either hindered by the prevailing winds or accelerated. All the videos that I tested for that night or other nights showed this feature. Even the control tower people at Sky Harbor Airport said they saw smoke emanating from the flares. Let's quickly review the evidence for the case for flares behind the Estrellas:

1. These events have been going on for some time, three months or more.

2. The color is bright amber.

3. Smoke was seen by some.

4. The on to off time of each light is very consistent.

5. The general time lines and dates are repeated (for that night they occurred at 8:30, 9:25, and 10:00 pm)

6. Mostly week nights.7. The Gila Bend Gunnery Range hours match the time line.

8. All drop vertically and move in a lateral direction consistent with flares.

9. All video tapes that have the complete cycle, that is, from start to finish, show this.

10. Two videos, shot at close range, seem to show smoke flowing around them.

11. On one of the tapes, the person asks if they are flares.

12. The Army National Guard said they shot-off these flares.

13. Six news programs announced that the military said they were flares and two reports were from military pilots who located them at the Gila Bend Gunnery Range behind the Estrella Mountains.

Due to the multitude of events that night and the confusion of these lights with the V formation, I didn't concentrate on this event. In fact, if these nine flares hadn't been fired off that night, the real big story—the one that needs to be solved—would not have made the TV news. The reason is that there is only one video, so far, that has been brought forward, and even though it was shot with a Sony Hi 8, the lights can barely be seen. I had to stretch the light scale in Adobe Premier for it to be used on the first Strange Universe show.

Flares, then, appear to be the answer for the lights near the Estrella Mountains. Journal readers may have seen these videos on the national TV news coverage. However, they cannot be the answer for the V formation.

What was this V formation seen by so many across the state of Arizona the evening of the 13th? If you use the 42 second video clip to make a judgment, you will see the last light on the western side move to the rear and maintain its alignment. If you drew lines through the points to make a five-point V, the sides appear to be slightly bowed to the outside. You hear no sound but only the person taking the video and his comments. The night was hazy at that location so no stars appear in this video clip.

Luke AFB floated four stories about the V formation:

1. It was a flight of Blue Angels coming from Nellis AFB in Nevada. (Linda M. Howe said that a formation of five was also seen over Las Vegas heading southwest. The Blue Angels were not due for another day.)

2. It was a squadron of A 10s on a night training mission heading back to Tucson.

3. None of ours!

4. A private plane with a skilled pilot flying between restricted air corridors with a string of lights a mile long. I like that one myself — yeah, right!

The question is why did Luke AFB change their stories? The Army National Guard didn't.

Even though the V formation may or may not prove to be a real UFO after a thorough investigation, the other so-called "sightings of the decade" may well fade into history.

As Paul Harvey says, "Now you know the rest of the story." In the meantime, the real investigation is still going on ...

Please see the map which shows the directions in which the witnesses were observing the flares beyond the Estrella Mountains. Thomas R. Taylor, State Director for Arizona, supports this investigation and preliminary report.

* Special Thanks To Clifford Clift, MUFON International Director, and especially to Richard Motzer for his excellent field work and report.
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I awoke from a brief nap in my recliner and leaned over to tell my wife that I was going to bed. I glanced to the clock on the television, it was 8:30 pm. As I walked down the hallway to the master bedroom, I noticed the bedroom window was open. The weather was most pleasant this March 13 evening, temp. 75 degrees, clear and no wind.(Jim Schnebelt Fox 10 weather) Typical Arizona spring evening. As I pulled the window closed, my eyes were attracted to the three huge, bright white lights angled down and very low to the ground. "Plane crash!" I thought. These lights were way too low and angled in a way nothing I know of could pull out of.

By Mike Fortson The UFO Chronicles March 1997 © 1997-2016

I ran down the hallway, grabbed my glasses off the bar and yelled to my wife, of 25 years, "get outside right now!" Without hesitation she followed me out the back arcadia door to the edge of our patio. (I have timed this since and it took app. 8-10 sec)

Standing at the edge of our patio, facing west, and looking north, confussion struck me. For there was no plane crash, but coming from the north and heading south was one, single structure that looked like a giant boomerang. (the description of boomerang, chevron (best), and V shaped object all apply). This object stuck out like a sore thumb in the evening sky due to the fact we were looking north towards the Phoenix metro area, and the city lights gave us a grey background in which to view this huge black V shaped object. It was so low to the surface we could not believe it. I remember saying, "what the hell is that?"

The huge V shaped craft was moving slowly to the south. At this point, still northwest of us, we both saw a 737 in landing approach pass over the object. The plane was coming in from the west heading east. The V shaped craft was heading south from the north. As the 737 passed over the V shaped object, I said, "did you see that! Why didn't the plane get the hell out of there?" But it didn't. The pilot nor the planes computers saw nothing. (Just like the radars at Sky Harbor and Luke AFB. Nothing was detected.)

I would like to explain more on this incident. We live app. 23 miles ESE of Sky Harbor in Phoenix. Planes coming in to land (most of the time) will come out by us, bank to the north (left), proceed for app. 10-12 miles, bank left again (west) and land at Sky Harbor. This is normal landing pattern. I have talked to airline pilots, tower operators, and investigators about the altitude of planes coming in to land at Sky Harbor, at the point of the first bank north where we live. The altitude..1200'. The massive V shaped craft we saw was under 1200' altitude!

As the huge V shaped craft proceeded south, it was almost in front of us, when my eyes followed the left wing to it's end. We live 1/2 mile south of Chandler Blvd. The end of the wing was well past that and at least half way to Ray Rd. (1 1/2 miles north!) I remember saying to my wife, "that son-of-a-bitch is a mile long! As it passed in front of us all we could see is the left wing. That's how low it was. At arm's length the object was at least 30"+ long. I reported it was app. 1 1/2 mile west of us, going down Alma School Rd. But the closest part of the huge V, the end of the left wing was much closer. Maybe within a 1/2 mile. One thing that I remember the most is how this craft "floated" app. 30-40 mph. There was no visual means of propulsion and absolutely no noise. The altitude and speed of the craft never changed.

On March 13, 1997, at app.8:31 pm mst., there was a bright bottom quarter moon setting in the western horizon. I said to the wife, "we're gonna get more detail, look, it's going right into the light of the moon." But instead of greater detail of this huge V shaped craft, what we saw still amazes us. As the front of the V shaped craft entered the light of the moon, this black chevron shaped object became translucent in bright light! We could still see the bottom quarter moon thru the object, but instead of bright white, it (moon) was a dingy yellow. As the V shaped craft exited the bright moon, it became a solid black object again. We watched as the entire craft passed thru this. Seeing a solid object going into and coming out of, was black. But as the craft passed between us and the bright, white moon, it was translucent.

(Something about bright objects...witnesses who had this pass over their heads claim that as the craft passed between bright stars, it was like looking thru...water)

By the time the end (left wing still) was passing thru the light of the moon, the front of the craft was disappearing into the night sky to our south. It never changed course, speed, or altitude. Just faded off into the night sky to the south of us.

During the whole sighting we never moved our feet. We never considered getting a camera. We never thought of yelling for a neighbor. There was no question in our minds that what we saw was not of this Earth. Our total sighting was app. 1 minute and 45 seconds.
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